belly dance and cj

topic posted Fri, February 16, 2007 - 9:24 AM by  Unsubscribed
I'm new to cj, but loving it. I got into it thinking it would be a hobby but obsession is more accurate. Anyhow, I've also always loved belly dance, as my mother was a belly dancer (trained by Aisha Ali, if you're familliar with her) when I was a kid. It seems to me that a great deal of belly dance could be compimentary to cj. I'm sure i am not the only one who has noticed this. I have been practicing to Arabic music (Orange Blossom is amazing..give them a listen if you get the chance). Though I am a guy, and as such find aspects of belly dance nigh on impossible, I still think that the movements are very compatable. Also, incorportating them would keep one from being locked in place, you know? Any thoughts on this?
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  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Sun, February 18, 2007 - 2:25 PM
    Been thinking it for a long time....I have been bellydancing for a long time but only recently started learning basic contact juggling.....when I figure it all out I will let ya know...*wink*
  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Mon, February 19, 2007 - 9:51 AM
    I'm a belly dancer and I'm hoping to learn to CJ for use while belly dancing. Someone pointed out that some of the tribal fusion style belly dance (like Rachel Brice, Kami Liddle and Ariellah do)--with all the popping and locking--can really work with CJ. I'd love to see it if someone combined them.
    • Re: belly dance and cj

      Mon, February 19, 2007 - 11:20 AM
      Ive been working on combining them for quite sometime now...my latest project was a duo contact juggling performance with my friend, we performed at Studio Seven in Seattle on Friday it was awesome!! Three people video taped it and all are a little dark, so Im trying to lighten it up then will post the video soon. Our routine incorporated a lot of bellydance and also liquid style dancing.
      We used 3.25 blue swirl UV ball, which wasent as bright at the regular UVs but still looked badass when the Blacklight turned on.
      If I cant lighten it Ill post it anyway cause you can see once in awhile when peoples flashes on their cameras go off.
      • Re: belly dance and cj

        Thu, March 8, 2007 - 3:33 PM
        Arrgh! The video cant be lightened, and it really isnt worth posting it its so dark. Thats the problem with getting vid of my shows, they are always in rave-type lighting. *Sighs* Maybe one day..
        • Re: belly dance and cj

          Sat, March 10, 2007 - 6:48 PM
          For anyone who is interested: Jennifer Sauvageau and myself will be teaching some upcoming Sphereplay (CJ) workshops at Mystic Jewell dance studio (formerly Domba studio) in Tempe, AZ. The focus will be on taking Sphereplay foundation and exploring how it can be melded with belly dancing styles. I'll post dates when they have been solidified. Feel free to PM me for more info.
          -Alien Jon-
          • Re: belly dance and cj

            Wed, December 12, 2007 - 9:22 AM
            I love those guys. . .I learned a good bit of poi from them the year I worked AZ.
            What day of the week is all this going down?
  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Thu, February 22, 2007 - 6:15 PM
    I do both. There are SOOO many cool things that come out of combining the two, things you wouldn't even suspect, like the super fun waves I do with my ball in conjunction with belly undulations. It looks great, and it is still at this point quite unique, which is another thing I like about it. I should have some youtube footage up soon!

    good luck,
    Europamoon
  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Wed, March 7, 2007 - 4:52 PM
    And here I was just last night thinking I'd stumbled across a wonderful new idea of combining the two. I think it could be quite beautiful to play around with different isolations and rhythms, although I'm a long way off mastering either.
    • Re: belly dance and cj

      Thu, July 12, 2007 - 4:00 PM
      So last night I performed at the Noc-noc in Seattle, it was a sort of metal variety show, and I got a partial clip (just the last half of my show, the first part included thai fingers and a single ball-which was a little more technical than the two ball). Finally a video with enough light to see whats going on!

      www.youtube.com/watch
      • Re: belly dance and cj

        Sat, July 14, 2007 - 2:42 AM
        Very nice dance. Very nice CJ.

        I do get the feeling there's a conflict though: the balls are a relatively small focal point compared to your whole-body dance, and the eye goes from one to the other, but not smoothly. I want to look at your body and the balls, but they don't fall into the same field of focus.

        Maybe a single larger ball, say about 12 to 14 inches diameter. Obviously not acrilic, but maybe a metal reflecting globe, or ? Then you could relate your own movements more readily to the ball, the way a belly dancer does to a veil or scarf, or to a sword. Also the way a dancer might relate to a pole. Think Martha Graham here.

        About ten years ago I had a short (90 second) routine with a stage ball in which it was the face of "the beloved." A pas de deux, actually. It ended with the ball in the crook of my arm, and my face nestled next to it, as if in the hollow of her neck. I was never satisfied with it, and never had an occasion to perform it for others anyway.

        It gave me a real reason to do what too many CJers do by default, which is to constantly look at and focus on the ball.


        • Re: belly dance and cj

          Sun, July 15, 2007 - 3:33 PM
          I agree a larger ball would enhance things, especially with the lighting how it was there. Im looking for an acryllic with led lights built in. That would *pop* much better.
          • Re: belly dance and cj

            Sun, August 19, 2007 - 3:52 PM
            Wow!...thanks for posting the clip! I also do both, but am far from mastery of CJ. So far just doing very basic juggling with my dance....I love the integration of the two, and so do audiences....visibility of my clear 3 inch ball is a bit of an issue....also in the market for an led ball.... I should also have performance clips soon....

            Alien Jon-would love more info!
            • Re: belly dance and cj

              Mon, August 20, 2007 - 1:06 PM
              Heres a belly/contact fusion video, Im using my new 3.5 inch UV balls. I love them. Its split into two sections due to size..
              myspacetv.com/index.cfm
              myspacetv.com/index.cfm
              • Re: belly dance and cj

                Wed, August 22, 2007 - 9:31 AM
                Wow. I can't help it, I keep focusing more on the mini-kilt and how the tassels are moving. It's adorable! Interesting idea for how to incorporate costume elements that accentuate moves without hindering the movement of you or the balls.
                • Re: belly dance and cj

                  Fri, September 7, 2007 - 2:52 PM
                  aloha,

                  This is something i've been playing with for the past few months... I love the isolations with bellydance and have had some unique experiences finding new movements to incorporate the two. Will keep y'all updated once I get a video!!

                  bliss
              • Re: belly dance and cj

                Sat, September 8, 2007 - 4:58 PM
                Lovely indeed!

                And two separate routines! Bet you could repeat them almost exactly (--most CJrs, myself included, have a very hard time routinizing any performance, and always prefer free-form).

                Must be a higher level of discipline. Maybe intelligence, too.

                Certainly sexier than anything I ever did! (Must be my hat.)


                • Re: belly dance and cj

                  Wed, September 26, 2007 - 11:22 AM
                  Another short vid from Burningman...
                  www.youtube.com/watch
                  And another from the morning after the burn, the fire dancer is Zan, Im contact juggling, and Im not sure who the belly dancer is.
                  www.youtube.com/watch
                  Shortly after this a documentary maker shot me using a wide angle lens (really good for CJing) as the sun came up and he said it would be the ending to his film! Schweeeet.
        • Re: belly dance and cj

          Tue, October 9, 2007 - 8:31 PM
          I have a 10" silver reflecting ball and it's huge! I mean really big, I'm 6'5" and it takes up most of my body, I would probably discourage anything 12"-14". I've been using a 6" metal that is really great.
  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Sat, October 13, 2007 - 10:00 PM
    I did a CJ/bellydance solo at one of the 2007 IJA renegade shows, and found that they go together very nicely. Palm spinning could work well for close up stuff, but for stage performances 3" or 4" work best. Pop and lock does look nice, but I think isolations (both bellydance and CJ) look the best together. The concept of isolations is huge in both bellydance and CJ, so why not throw them in together? The moves tend to be very basic from a CJ point of view, but the point is to make it look good with another form of movement rather than to show off CJ skills.

    I actually used two balls to help with symmetry, and thought it went really well (but what Renegade crowd isn't going to like bellydancing of any sort?)
    • Re: belly dance and cj

      Thu, November 8, 2007 - 2:21 PM
      bliss... I really wish we had some footage of you on here. We should make that a priority next time you are at the vulcan.

      sentient... nice work. I love the fact that Zan turned up in the video. And I like what you are doing with two balls in a line and the transitions between them. You and Bliss need to be in the same place at the same time someday.

      but also... you should pause for applause! maybe incorporate some more balances and give them a chance to applaud part way through. It gives them a chance to warm up and remember what live performance is...

      I've been thinking about bellydance/cj since bliss cam along and... um... here I go...

      solid isolations and strong linear movements contrast sharply with the fluidity of bellydance. the result is a disconnect between the action of the ball and the action of the dancer. when done well the ball seems to move very separately from the dancer. the british style of cj uses this technique to great effect, introducing narrative elements into the performance by allowing both person and prop to act and react to one another.

      on the flip side... curved lines and flowing movements tend to compliment the style of bellydance. as a result the ball usually becomes either an extension of or an accessory to the dancer.

      The accessory category is usually not so great... but maybe that is the juggler in me getting ornery.

      The ball as an extension of the dancer is the more normal situation for a good bellydance/cj performance. When it fails it is usually compromised by the performer focusing too much attention on the ball.

      I still haven't seen a contact/bellydance solo that had any narrative elements...

      YAR! consider that a challenge to you all!

      This could blow up after all. The most well recognized style in cj today, aside from that of Mr. Moschen, is probably the british style. It basically fell out of the combination of contact and breakdancing. Contact and bellydance could easily be the next big thing.
      • Re: belly dance and cj

        Sun, November 11, 2007 - 9:40 PM
        Uh, . . . yep; what Greg said.

        The incorporation of CJ into each form of dance and acrobatics is always what's happening next. Everything you bring to it, enhances it. Belly dancing. Rhythmic gymnastics. Pop-lock. Martial arts. Juggling. Yo-yo. Jitter-ring. (your skill goes here.)

        I'm looking for modern dance and ballet forms with CJ soon. Some day we may even get back to Martha Graham and Viola Spolin and Ruth St Denis & Shawn and the whole early 20th c. break with classical dance. There ARE more directions to be explored. But just as & more important than the sources and combinations is the level of skill that goes into the mix:

        Learn your shit. Do it!

        and please, please show us as it happens.


  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Fri, November 30, 2007 - 12:19 PM
    i got into CJ because i saw a belly dancer give a BEAUTIFUL performance with a single sphere. it was magial . . . . if i ever get good enought going to add it to my dance rep . . along with the snake, and swords, and the voi, and the fire, lol . . . .
    • Re: belly dance and cj

      Sun, December 2, 2007 - 7:59 PM
      My story is similar.

      I saw my first CJer at the Isla Vista juggling festival, in 1985 or 86. The guy did one perfect performance, and a day later tried the same thing and had crystals rolling all over the stage. He seems to have left immediately thereafter. Never found out his name, but I decided that I really wanted to learn how to do that dance, and devoted the next twenty years to learning and teaching.

      He was rolling four balls around his arms and across his chest, like a choo-choo train. It was wonderful. And no, I never got that good.

      There's supposed to be a video of that show, somewhere. And the performer is out there, somewhere, if he's still alive. I'd give my left nut (or the local equivalent) to hear of either one.

      =Eric
      • Re: belly dance and cj

        Mon, December 3, 2007 - 3:06 PM
        There was a thread on Contactjuggling.org that addressed CJ and dance and I have to agree with it so I'll basicly just kind of paraphrase it.

        Too many people have stopped trying to advance CJ. Instead they're trying too hard to incorporate various dances at the forefront while putting the art of CJ in the background. You see all these people popping and locking with a CJ ball or doing liquid dancing with a CJ ball and never really doing CJ. While I don't think it's a bad thing that people are wanting to do these dances and incorporate bits and pieces of CJ, I much rather see people further the art of contact juggling. It seems like too many people aren't trying to really push the art and try newer and more complicated CJ moves and instead deciding to use these various dance styles as an alternative to attempt to evolve the art.

        That's just my thought on the matter. However, I'd much rather see someone doing these dances with a CJ ball then someone doing CJ and standing so still it's like they have a wooden plank up their back.
        • Re: belly dance and cj

          Mon, December 3, 2007 - 4:55 PM
          Hmmm.
          I started out learning the basics of contact juggling, and realized that after awhile, I wasnt taking it to any new places, and also having the "plank" up my back stance. It wasnt until I started bellydancing that I was able to get it to a new level, besides being able to actually give a 'performance' instead of just messing around with a ball (making eye contact with crowd, facial expressions, using space etc). This fusion took awhile, some people dont realize its pretty fricken hard to be cjing and dancing at once. (It can be just as difficult to execute a moderately easy cjing move with a dance move as it is to execute a moderately hard cjing move just standing there.) So when that dance fusion plateaus a bit, its time for more revamping of the technical skills. And once some new tricks are learned, I will find a dance move that will compliment it. Thats what works for me and seems to be an effective method. I know people that have serious technical cjing skills but they have never taken it past stitting in their living room, staring at their hands.
          Its kindof ridiculous to say "Too many people...trying too hard" with dance and cjing. I mean, any new art form is going to explode in different directions and levels. I dont think its a cop-out to focus on dancing with a ball, or that its taking away from the "art of contact juggling" ... Everyone is going to have their own styles and interpretations of cjing, and its not just going to disolve or wither away. People will always continue to push the limits of gravity...with their bodies and their balls. :)
          I was very excited to see so many cjers at Burningman this year compared with last. There seemed to be an exponential growth.
          • Re: belly dance and cj

            Mon, December 3, 2007 - 5:05 PM
            I agree, I've just seen a lot of people that say "I contact juggle" and the ball never leaves their grasp as they start dancing, never once do you ever see them do anything remotely CJ oriented, it just happens that they're holding an acrylic ball. If someone wants to incorporate CJ into dance they need to use the ball and not just have is as a stagnate prop. I'd love to see someone be able to do belly dancing and incorporate a nice smooth body roll, or someone that has a liquid style use the circle to move the dance from one side of the body to the other.
  • Re: belly dance and cj

    Sat, April 12, 2008 - 2:57 PM
    Yesh! I started learning belly dance specifically to incorporate it with contact juggling (and here I thought I was so damn clever)! It is an interesting project to see how they can be combined without being too... visually noisy, is I think the phrase I'm looking for. I am far more familiar with martial arts than I am with belly dance, so there's another idea in the works...
    • Re: belly dance and cj

      Sat, April 12, 2008 - 8:17 PM
      I must know twenty people who believed they had invented a CJ move or approach, only to discover that someone else did it earlier.

      It's like Richard Feynman telling of discovering a new basic principle of physics in the early hours of the morning, and for a while is exhilarated with the thought of being the only person in the world who knows that special thing. Eventually the sun rises, and you tell others, and find who else has been sniffing the same tree, and life goes on. But for a moment there . . .

      The thing is to persue your vision, not just to the mastery of a trick or a combination of movements or styles, but of what it all means and how others see it and what it evokes for them. Those moments of understanding are worth everything.


      (Sorry. I get carried away.)
      • Re: belly dance and cj

        Wed, May 21, 2008 - 1:45 PM
        i too just started cj (on may 18th to be exact) and i also belly dance...it has completely consumed me and i couldn't be more excited...i've started to incorporate the basic skills i have into dance and already the flow feels quite natural. definitely a bit of magic lurking within this connection somewhere

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